Here Dead We Lie -- A E Housman

Continuing with Vikram Doctor's guest theme:
(Poem #1227) Here Dead We Lie
 Here dead we lie
 Because we did not choose
 To live and shame the land
 From which we sprung.

 Life, to be sure,
 Is nothing much to lose,
 But young men think it is,
 And we were young.
-- A E Housman
The second is a well known one by A.E.Housman, but its
not yet featured on minstrels. I guess its Flecker's
line "I was a poet, I was young" which makes me think
about it, since it also deals with young mens' dreams.
It is in its low key way quite an extraordinary poem,
for the punch it packs, simulatenously compassionate,
commemorative, patriotic and yet with such sad and
bitter knowledge at the end.

Vikram

[Martin adds]

The second verse of this poem is one that has haunted me ever since I first
read it. Housman's ironic "Life to be sure is nothing much to lose" recalls
Wilfred Owen's quoting of "the old lie, 'Dulce et decorum est, pro patria
mori'", and to my mind, the quiet "but young men think it is, and we were
young" is an even more effective depiction of the pity of war than Owen's
graphically detailed horrors. Housman's narrator says, in effect "yes, we
fought and we died, but know that we did so in full awareness of the
price we were paying."

martin

22 comments:

  1. Re: Here Dead We Lie

    Hating to be the one who mentions rhyme scheme, nevertheless, it's quite cool
    as this poem's is ABCD EBFD, which links the two stanzas quite beautifully
    and adds to the compactness and poignancy of the poem.

    carlynn

    ReplyDelete
  2. --- wrote:
    > The second stanza confirms what Dylan Thomas describes
    > wisemen whose "words had forked no lightning..." Yet unlike
    > A.E., Thomas suggests for them not to go gentle into oblivion.
    > Housman holds on to the opposite view that for the youth, life
    > does not have anything much to lose and hence nothing of value
    > to fight or die for.

    I'd strongly disagree with this - I think Housman is being bitterly ironic in
    the second verse, pointing out that though the 'Establishment' keeps harping on
    about glorious death, the young know better; know that life *is* a lot to lose.
    The first verse says that they felt the price worth paying; the second adds
    that they paid it with their eyes wide open.

    martin

    ReplyDelete
  3. Thanks Martin, for the your interpretation. I will not argue about it but I
    think in Houseman's time terms such as Angst, Weltzmer(?) and Nihilism was
    the fad so that my drift maybe the result of what I know. You have made it
    positive by claiming life has so much to lose from the point of view of the
    young. I see it differently. I feel that Housman expressing the frustration
    of the young for not making a dent in their world has resulted in the poem. A
    great poem, no matter.

    My best,
    sandi

    ReplyDelete
  4. Re: Rhyming Scheme

    Although the poem is shown here in two stanzas, four lines each, with
    the apparent rhyming scheme being ABCD EBFD, it is a fancy. One might
    add to this illusion a note of a clever 2-3-3-2 iambic rhythm per stanza.

    In truth, this poem is written as a single quatrain in a favorite English
    iambic pentameter, perfectly rhyming ABAB. Just rewrite it properly, and
    you will see it!

    Hope this is helpful.

    Gene

    ReplyDelete
  5. I had read this years ago, and somewhere along the line, in my head i changed the poem...and now the changes version strikes me even more...

    Life, to be sure,
    Is nothing much to lose,
    But old men this it is,
    and we were young

    old men value life because they know theyre at the end of their own, its why old people fret...while the young are so carefree that they act as though theyre immortal...and the "and we were young" part takes on a different significance, because now he's saying firstly, "we threw our lives away", and secondly, "we never had the chance to think our lives WERE much to lose, we never had the chance to grow old, and experience the panics of old age"- it now strikes me as a better version

    ReplyDelete
  6. Like another Martin who commented on "Here dead we lie..", this poem haunted
    me too the first time I read it, but I couldn't fully express why. I used it
    as a prologue to one of my own poems. I was a combat infantryman in Vietnam
    (1968-69) and like all young men in wars before and since, I wanted to live.
    I wanted to experience a full life. I wanted to go home sitting in an
    airplane seat and not encased in a body bag. Now, I am an old man as is the
    narrator of this poem, and I wonder why life was so important to me then.
    In the tamer years that followed my war experience I have not been as
    intensely alive as in those years. I came to fully appreciate this poem
    only after I read Ambrose Bierce's essay: "What I Saw at Shiloh", Essay
    XII, the last line of which reads: "Ah, Youth, there is no such wizard as
    thou! Give me but one touch of thine artist hand upon the dull canvas of
    the Present; gild but for one moment the drear and somber scenes of today,
    and I will willingly surrender an other life than the one that I should have
    thrown away at Shiloh." This may sound foolish to a young person. I would
    have to me, but then, life was important to young men, and I was young.

    Martin Milco

    ReplyDelete
  7. As with another person's comment regarding this poem, I too was haunted by
    it, but could not fully explain to myself why. I used it as a prologue to
    one of my own war poems. I was a combat infantryman in Vietnam [1968-69].
    Like young soldiers then, before, and since, I wanted to live, to return
    home, to take a crack at having a full life. I was 25 then, I am nearly 63
    now, therefore I qualify as an old man, just as the narrator of the poem.
    During the ensuing tamer years, I've often wondered why life seemed too
    important to lose back then. I am in no way suicidal or nihilistic. It is
    just in retrospect that I realize the intensity of living, of experiencing
    the enormity of life, coexisting with the very real prospect of sudden death
    in those harrowing days made me somehow, paradoxically, fully alive. The
    poem came full circle for me a few years ago after having read Ambrose
    Bierce's essay, : What I Saw at Shiloh", Essay XII. The last line reads:
    "Ah, Youth, there is no such wizard as thou! Give me but one touch of thine
    artist hand upon the dull canvas of the Present; gild but for one moment the
    drear and somber scenes of today, and I will willingly surrender an other
    life than the one that I should have thrown away at Shiloh." For me, there
    is an unstated implication in Housman's poem: that the wisdom of age says
    such an intensity for life which once existed under those horrifying
    circumstances cannot be recaptured and therefore "life is nothing much to
    lose, but, young men think it is and we were young."

    ReplyDelete
  8. Surely the word should be 'sprang'? If so, this blemishes a poem of otherwise sombre beauty.
    Rodger hyde

    ReplyDelete
  9. "Surely the word should be 'sprang'?"?
    see Donne: A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning (#330)

    Such wilt thou be to me, who must
    Like th' other foot, obliquely run;
    Thy firmness makes my circle just,
    And makes me end where I begun.
    -- John Donne

    ReplyDelete
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